How Neurogum Makes $100M/Year Selling Brain-Boosting Mints | Kent Yoshimura

Meet Kent Yoshimura. He's the co-founder and CEO of Neurogum, an investor, a neuroscience major, and even trained with the Japanese Olympic judo team. His company's been around for over a decade, pulling in nine figures in revenue, and today he's here to share the journey.

I want to ask you about Neurum because I was at Best Buy the other day, and I saw Neurum in the checkout aisle, you know, at the end.

Oh, really? At Best Buy?

Yeah, at Best Buy. And I was kind of shocked. I was like, "Oh, interesting product placement." And so I want you to explain what your gum is and how people use it.

So at Durum, we're creating the new generation of gum and mints. That's how we explain it. Where gum and mints traditionally have been a market and a product that doesn't have a lot of benefit to the human body. Maybe it whitens your teeth. Um but the sharability, the portability, there's so many benefits that gum and mints intrinsically have. And when you take those attributes and add in supplementation, things that are actually good for your body together, you get neurogum. So whether it's energy and focus through our natural caffeine aline B6B12 blend in a gum mint format that's our bestseller all the way to our sleep product which you know is clinically tested combination of melatonin and a bunch of botanicals actually that help with your entire sleep cycle. We have products that help you stay in focus and live a great life. you know, refreshes your mind and body uh throughout the day.

Is there a reason you chose gum and not just like taking a caffeine pill?

So, one, the attributes of gum, going back to it, the sharability and the portability. You don't want to be carrying pills with you in your pocket and you're not going to share pills. So, there's a lifestyle component of it that's missing. When you also have a gum or mid format, the science of bugal absorption or sublingual absorption where the ingredients absorbs through your mouth and the glands in your mouth is a lot more effective than if you swallow something and it breaks down in your stomach. And um you know the combination of the science and the combination of the attributes made it really obvious for us that gum and mints were the answer.

Interesting. Uh it reminds me of nicarat. you know, nicer like the gum that came out to quit smoking people and I think I've tried it once and it literally made me uh want to gag.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz I mean nicotine is an intense uh thing and caffeine on the other hand I'm big caffeine consumer myself. Uh I try to not do more than 400 milligrams a day because I know that's the daily recommended do 400. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean, and I I do think our generation is kind of addicted to caffeine, but caffeine when used uh properly can be a very really good stimulant to help you be more productive. How do you personally feel about caffeine and how do you use it in your daily life? Well, it's incredible because you can look at the research on coffee, which is a combination of obviously cap and flavonoids, a lot of different compounds. But the benefits that it has on recovery, on performance, it is there's a reason that people have been taking caffeine for as long as they have been taking it. It is like one of the most researched things in the world. Uh, and obviously there's an upper limit to everything that you have to be conscious about. I personally with neurogum and neuromint I just popped a neuromint. The benefits of having a lower dosage 40 milligrams or extramp has 100 milligrams which you feel it but taking it throughout the day means that unlike taking an energy drink we're getting that 400 milligrams for some right 380 milligrams 400 milligrams in one can in one go in a carbonated format so it absorbs better instead of doing it in that way where you're burning yourself out your adren your adinosine out by just having a mega dose of caffeine balancing and micro doing throughout the day is going to give you a very consistent uh performance base which we prefer which I think is a lot better which is the way more is not better in many situations right so uh that that's kind of the philosophy that we try to to approach neurogun with

yeah right now the biggest trend is matcha and there's literally a shortage of ma matcha uh because it's more of a slowrelease caffeine um product than coffee because coffee gives a lot of people jitters. How do you think about jitters and uh is neurogum more similar to like matcha than coffee where it's more like a slow release?

It's way more similar to matcha and Dr. Rhonda Patrick actually has a podcast on this, but the combination of caffeine and elenine. Elthetnine is the other compound in our product which is the primary amino acid compound in green tea gives you that green tea focus and boost. And there's scientific articles around the combination of caffeine and alenine. It's a very traditional neutropic stack that we adopted what I was taking and ultimately we adopted in uh you know launching our brand almost a decade ago and if you've taken our product I think there's a very clear difference in how you feel and the focus that you feel relative to a coffee and energy drink and it's more akin to a matcha or a green tea which as you know is also a very different focused calm subdued boost without the jitters.

What was the uh inception of the idea? Were you not satisfied with just drinking coffee?

Yeah, I mean I was never a big coffee drinker but when I was training so I was fighting in Thailand in Muay Thai. I was training with the you know Olympic judo team in Japan, the Imperial Guards in Japan. Um, in judo, martial arts has been a big part of my life since I was 5 years old. In college, well, high school and college, I was taking it way more seriously to get to a higher level. And realizing that energy drinks, even at the UFC level, like people have those monster cannons in front of them, those are filled with water. You know, no one's drinking a freaking monster energy drink before they go and fight. I wasn't I didn't want to drink energy drinks. I didn't want to take supplements that were not certified. And I got into the world of neutropics and I was taking different neutropic formats in pill form that either I was mixing myself after doing the research or I was buying online and realizing on a scuba diving trip with my co-founder Ryan that pill format is not going to be a lifestyle product ever. I'm not going to be carrying a bottle of pills with me ever. And if I wanted to share energy and focus with others, it had to be in gum or mitts. It had to be something that was sharable, you know, a drink, a gum, or mint. Like, you're not sharing a drink, you know, with someone. Like, there's only so many things that you could do that fit in your pocket that you give to someone else and really build this like ecosystem.

So, as social,

especially the product makes a lot of sense nowadays. I feel like I don't know if 10 years ago people were immediately like, "Oh, let me buy this." But um I do think the marketing is very clear like focus uh this product helps you focus is as this is as simple as that. U what would you do today if you had to relaunch Neurum because I mean everyone when they think about Neurum they think about Shark Tank right like that was like the key moment in the history of Neurogum.

Shark Tank Joe Rogan. Yeah.

Joe Rogan and Shark Tank. So, uh, okay, let's talk about how did you get into Shark Tank because a lot of DDC brands watching this video will be, uh, would want to go to Shark Tank. Like, was that a stroke of luck or was that planned? So, Shark Tank actually reached out to us at the very beginning of our career, but I don't they didn't actually bring us on. I don't think we're ready yet either. So it actually worked out to our favor because we had a lot of PR going into launching our product to build education around the fact that we are creating a new category you know and if people don't know about caffeine healthy these things in a gum or mint format which has never existed before then you need to educate the consumer that this is a thing that exists that led us to be on Dr. for us early on and I think the conversation around the media began which ultimately led to the Shark Tank casting producers reach out to us. When we ultimately did go on Shark Tank, we were still in touch with those people and they let us know that there was a casting call happening in Arizona. So Ryan and I flew out to Arizona for one night, did the casting call, and we didn't hear back for like two months. And then all of a sudden, they were like, "You guys are going on Shark Tank. Get your butts ready. Let's uh sign all this paperwork. Let's go." And that's how it happened. So if there's any advice for DDC, uh, you know, or just entrepreneurs in general that want to get on the show, there's casting calls happening for Shark Tank all the time. Go and Google it. Try to find it. There's like LinkedIn article like people on LinkedIn with casting directors like Brian Brandon Andrews is a casting director for Shark Tank for example. He posts about when a new casting call is happening. Go and look out for those and uh try to apply and and and build a good pitch. You know, you have to have a good product, have a good pitch, have a good story more than anything. So,

also the viewership of Shard Tank is insane right now. It's gone like insane for the last 10 years. It's uh I think it's one of the highest most watched shows in America right now.

I believe it. That's crazy.

And how did that exposure like uh what kind of results you saw from that?

I mean pretty significant impact in regards to impressions across like and it's funny because on Shopify you could obviously see uh visitor recent visitors on site, right? Or like current visitors on site. you see this like flood of customers as it aired across the United States. So from an awareness level, absolutely massive. Post Shark Tank, that awareness could be good and bad, right? uh we got a trademark lawsuit that came against us from someone that was watching it in my opinion frivolous but we settled and it's a story that I've heard many of my entrepreneur friends have to deal with where that exposure has led them to uh get a certain level awareness that people come after you but thankfully we got over it um and you know anything that builds exposure as long as are prepared to serve the right messaging and positioning against that exposure is going to be beneficial. And for us, it was retaining those customers, making sure that if they hurt us, how are we retargeting them again, how are we in areas that they buy us, so on and so forth.

And how did you prevent copycats? Cuz I'm pretty sure it attracted a few companies that were like ripping you off.

Yeah, impossible. Impossible. We have so many counterfeiters that counterfeits that literally use our likeness on Shark Tank. They literally take a cook from us from Shark Tank and then change our logo on our shirt to say their brand name and they use that in their marketing.

Wow. Yeah. I mean that's inevitable at the scale you guys are, I guess.

Yeah. Which is fine.

Yeah. So the other day I was scrolling on Tik Tok shop because we're launching a product in the in the shower filter like category. like we're rethinking the whole space and I was just sc I was scrolling on Tik Tok shop and I saw Neurogum live. I was shocked. I was like, "Oh my god, I would not expect Neurogum to be live." But then I was thinking about it. I was like, "No, it actually makes sense."

We are the fastest growing brand on Tik Tok last year.

Can you please explain like I I don't I think there's so many people who are sleeping on this. I think younger generation of course we know how it works but can you explain like how Instagram and Tik Tok are different and how do you like think about Tik Tok and how do you use it? I mean, Tik Tok has created a frictionless shopping platform within their system that empowers not only brands but also creators to make money through affiliate content to market your your content and your brand, you know, and algorithmically, whether it's the lives that help drive retargeting or uh like again like the shopping videos and the shoability and the frictionless format that they've created. It just makes it it it is the best shoppable like social media platform that exists right now, you know, compared to Tik Tok.

One click.

It's one click versus uh Instagram versus more brand focused I would say.

And what's the key there? for for one side is of course you have these army of affiliates that you use to sell your product but then what's the strategy with going live? Um, so live actually the GMV on lives are not as significant, but when someone clicks into your live, Tik Tok's algorithm actually continues to retarget your videos to their feed because they see them as like a high likelihood to convert customer. So there's a value in like a very valuable top offunnel approach on doing a live because this is how it works in China also and a lot of the algorithmic stuff gets transferred over. There's a huge value in in doing a live even if there's no GMV value because of the top of funnel awareness and the retargeting. It's it's part of that the funnel. Yeah.

Interesting. And when you guys launched, I read this article that you guys did Indiegogo and then apparently I think you or your co-founder, they went on Reddit and you explained the technology behind it and then that led to the Indiegogo campaign being filled. But let's say 10 years later, right, 2025, someone wants to launch a product and they want to validate the demand for their idea. And I know you're an investor, so maybe you can give some more concrete advice here. How would they launch the product right now today? Like should we just run ads? Like what should what would you do?

I mean the principles. Yeah, I mean you can run ads and all this stuff, but like the principles of any brand, at least in my opinion, is there's a book called Crossing the Chasm that I talk about all the time, but is there a specific cohort that you could position and message yourself against that is going to be the early adopters that really is going to be the high retention customer, high LTV customer for your brand itself? And when you attract that customer, how are you messaging beyond them to get the next group of customers that in a ven diagram, you know, overlaps a little bit so you could expand your customer base. When you're able to identify and capture a cohort or a market that is so hyper um loyal or like so hyper attentive to your brand, the ability to upsell them, cross-ell them, build that base becomes so much easier, right? And you can be hyperfocused on your messaging, your marketing, your positioning, all those things. And so many brands come out the gates because they have a good product, but that messaging and positioning is so broad that you're marketing to everyone, which means you're marketing to no one. That is how you run out of money very very quickly. So from a principal standpoint, you know, minimum viable product, which is a term I I'm sure most people have heard of, but minimum viable product, that means have you found a customer base that is attracted to the product, that is loyal to the product, and you know, your messaging and positioning is accurate to them. And then two, are is that messaging and positioning and marketing able to translate slowly incrementally across uh a larger customer base into the total addressable market. That's probably how I would think about it. And then obviously there's like what are the brand strategies, the pillars, you know, what imperatives lead up to uh the customers you want to attract, the you know what how you're trying to represent yourself um to go from product to brand. But uh I would say that's more like stage two.

One thing I really like about New Yorker gum is the TAM. The TAM of your product is immensely large. Uh when does a person start taking caffeine, right? Like I started when I was like 15 years old. Uh I would say I would say a person like let's say conservatively 18, right? Which is not true. In America, people start way too early. Um is there like a legal age limit to take caffeine or no? You know, co we have as much caffeine as a Coca-Cola. So, and you know how young people are, you know, there we go. There we go. People as young as, you know, however old are drinking Coca-Cola nowadays. So,

yeah.

I don't think it's good for them,

but yeah, I love the fact that the TAM is so big. Uh, so you you can now at this point in Eurogum, you can be a lot broader, but when you were starting out, like who were you targeting? Was it targeted towards athlete because you're an athlete or was it targeted towards uh more like people like manual labor kind of people or people who are always on the go. So I was huge on like the thing you alluded to. I was really big in the Reddit neutropic community. So, I knew instantly that the neutropic community, people that are hyperconscious about ingredients that they're putting into their body for cognitive benefit, was a market that I could go after. Um, which is why when we posted on Reddit, like we adopted this incredible base of people. Um, from there though, athletes were definitely one aspect. I we we began expanding but like the way we look at consumer data now is how are people responding based on the media appearances and like media uh targeting that we do and so based on customer segmentation ignoring all the epsilon data and like really broad-based data like insights that we get how are you looking at customer segmentation and seeing which ads or which seg segments perform the best that we could go deeper in and you can get way more nuance with it. And the principles around like hook testing where you're talking about DDC marketing, meta ads, Tik Tok ads, whatever. Like it that applies to everything, you know, like is your hook and how you're capturing the attention of a consumer resonating enough that they're willing to watch the prop watch the video and purchase the product. And then how do you continue to expand that hook and positioning and messaging again words that I keep using in this podcast um to apply to a customer base to apply to customer insights so that you could go deeper? Do you have an example or story where there was a key inflection point in the growth of Neurogum? Except Shark Tank, of course, we talked about that, but there was like a video that you made or it was an organic piece of content that you made and you were like, "Whoa." Like like you basically discovered a format. Maybe it could have been like street style interview or it could have been something personal, but it was something you saw like, "Wow, that was a huge uptick in visitors or sales." I mean Joe I mean Joe Rogan was huge obviously.

Explain that. What was that moment?

He mentioned you guys, right?

Oh man. Like he he just mentioned this like we it wasn't expected. I just got a text message from a bunch of friends that was like, "Dude, Joe Rogan just mentioned Neurogum. We saw our sales spike and it was just him talking about how much he loves our product and he's mentioned us like probably 30 40 times since that." But um

awesome.

Yeah. Joe Rogan's been a great advocate for the brand. Um I'm very appreciative even to the point that there's a daily show video of things Joe Rogan takes. It's like an alphabet of things Joe Rogan takes and for the end it's us. Like that's how much our brand has been associated with him. But uh in terms of what we've done, you know, I'm I'm more of an operator

than a marketer.

So, how do we take a lot of what I do is like how do we take these moments and then build processes and operationalize it to make impact and continue to grow the company incrementally, right? Well, maybe a Jonathan on our team is a growth hacker. He's V our VP of growth. He's looking at moments to capitalize on to get these pops so that we could start activating our engine behind it. So it there's no one thing that could make or break a I mean unless you're a Dollar Shave Club and you have a commercial, but unless you have the system and again the messaging, positioning, like a good product, like all those things in place, an amazing thing can happen to you to get exposure, but you're not going to be able to capitalize on it. I think there's a ceiling that you can hit with direct to consumer for sure. Um, how and clearly you're a great operator because you're in every big box retailer. As I said, I saw you guys in Best Buy.

That's so great. I didn't even know we were in Best Buy, but that's nice to know. Yeah.

Yeah. So,

the sales team's doing a good job.

Clearly, uh, when did that transition happen getting into Walmart, Whole Foods, whatever. And how does one get into big box retailers? a good data story. So, it's harder than ever, I think, to enter into retail because even if you enter into retail, if you don't survive on shelf or you don't have the margin behind it, you're going to die on shelf, you're going to get hit with chargebacks and your company's going to go under. For us, we slowly took our steps to enter into retail. We didn't rush it. We built a pres presence on D TOC, looked at smaller retailers that we can manage, regional retailers that we can manage and then started entering into the national stage when we knew that we had the awareness like you know the US awareness um for people to know our product. We know where they're going to be, where they're shopping, and then how do we activate against all those data points so that we minimize our risk of failure and increase our our uh our velocities?

Interesting. And how would you rank platforms in terms of uh priority for you? Like I personally believe that Amazon is a juggernaut. Like Amazon is should I'm guessing number one on your list. Uh yeah.

Yeah. Amazon and

for supplements in general, supplements and concern get like Amazon you can't beat.

Yeah. And it's also just the price just like Yeah. The other day I ordered uh like a seasoning item and the it was it cost like $1.5. And I was doing the math. I was like, "How did Amazon ship this to me for free?" How? Like it was less than $2 item. How did they ship it for that low amount? And I think especially our generation is getting more and more used to just ordering on Amazon, especially guys. I'm noticing women still go into Target and big box stores, but especially guys who are busy guys like us, they're Amazon is the way to go.

Yeah, Target's strugg I mean, their stock price says it all.

Uh people going through their stores has dropped significantly. Walmart is still a juggernaut. Their stock price is doing well. um biggest retailer in the world. But to win at those spaces, again, it's hard to pinpoint like one retailer that could help you because to your point, Amazon is massive for us, but there's a lot of people that see products in retail and then they go to Amazon to buy. So, there's a double effect that happens when you're entering into like, let's say, 40 4,200 Walmarts around the nation. People see your product at Walmart, they build this brand awareness like, "Oh, that is Neurogum at Walmart or Best Buy, anywhere it is. It's like, oh my god, there it is." And then they go on Amazon and buy it because that's their touch point. So, how are you leveraging the billboard effect of retail in the real world and the credibility? You don't get into retail unless you're a real product. And there's a lot of bad fake products on Amazon. How do you leverage that credibility and then tie it back against every other channel so that it grows?

Uh, you're an ultra athlete. So, I want to talk more about how you're a biohacker and how do you like what's your daily workout routine? What kind of supplements you take except Neurogum? I I I don't know if I want to call Neurogum a supplement, but uh it is kind of like a performance boosting gum I would call it. Yeah. So, what else are you taking? And recently, what's what's been trending for you or you've noticed like significant?

Yeah, I I mean, unless you're It depends if I'm in training season or not. I'm I'm working out almost every day no matter what. But, um in training season, I'm obviously running like 50 60 70 miles a week, if not more. Um and then uh like an ultramarathon like but it depends on what I am training for you know. So like right now fitness is pretty important. I was going to run in the Grand Canyon but the Grand Canyon is on fire right now. So I just been doing like light running you know a few miles uh a lot of hill runs swimming and then just lifting um like dyn basically like dynamic lifting. So, but from a supplement perspective, uh I take beet powder. So, nitric oxide production is very important in cardiovascular health. So, beet powder has a lot of science behind it being helpful for increasing B2 max, cardiovascular health, all those things. I make a mix of that combined with a product that my friend Sebastian turned me on to, but uh, it's called Omni. It's a combination of beef organs, colostrum, which super nutrients, right? But without having to take it in a supplement format, whole food, beef organs, colostrum, uh, probiotics, soil based probiotics, and prebiotics. So, I mix that in. I take protein and then I mix a scoop of protein and creatine and creatine is my go-to for sure. Pro protein weight isolate instead of uh uh typ Yeah, like typically a whey isolate. Uh that that like um and then uh what else am I putting in there? I think those are the four main things in my smoothie that I make every single morning. and I put in a a banana. Um, for carbs, if I'm training, I'm adding malttodextrin in there because I need to build up my carb stores. So, that's just simple digestible carbs. Um, and then I'm taking fish oils, nicotinomide, uh, typically for just like daily supplements. And then before I go to bed, I take five grams of glycine, which helps with my sleep quality. And that's like a precursor to glutathione. It's a precursor to collagen. Um like things that basically help me get good rest also to result in better performance the next day.

And when you work out, uh are you taking some kind of pre-workout? What's your like I love to work out with caffeine? It just makes it much more enjoyable.

Cuz you're pumped. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. It's like you can listen to music and really lock in and without music it can be quite boring. Um, h how do you like what kind of pre-workout or are you just taking Neurogum? Like what are you taking?

Yeah, I mean I I usually just take Neurogum, frankly. So, I've been swimming more, so I'll pop a M, you know, and then uh I'll go swim. I used to take beta alanine or some something with beta alanine in it. I just do not like the way it makes me feel and I feel like you build a dependency on beta alanine. Although from a lactic acid perspective, it is very very helpful. Uh

the itchy like the beta alanine I think makes you feel that tingling itchy. Uh yeah, which is good for pumps. Uh I use it a lot but I I can I it's again it's kind of like a stimulant that you don't want to take.

Not all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. The cleanest one is caffeine in my opinion. like just just the caffeine, you know, that's all

it works every time.

Yeah, it works every time. Like you you you don't want to switch up too many things. Cool. Uh what other like I saw you also invest. So what are you what do you look for in companies when you invest?

I mean we touched on it a little bit earlier but you know do they have a minimum available product? Uh do I personally like it? you know, and is the messaging and positioning clear? And is the founder passionate about what they're doing? Are they just creating product to create a product because it's popular right now? Or is it something they truly believe in because it's something that they have a vision for that they want to push out into the world? I think those are the key things that I typically look for. And then um I still you know I I get passed along like bigger deals also where I could be a I typically like investing in smaller companies seeing that vision and seeing where I could help and uh allowing it to grow. But um yeah and I look at financials uh do the diligence behind that. Do the contribution margins make sense? Does the cogs make sense? Um, is there a path to an acquisition or an exit potentially as well uh for certain products? Um, how would it stand out on shelf? The there's probably a multitude of things. I usually only invest in CPG also because that's the world I know.

What's your I'm going to put you on the spot right here. You you don't have to answer if you don't want to. What's your hot take on Zen?

Oh, I I mean I think it's great. I like it. I don't like the fact that you're sucking on microplastics. And I think there's a few other companies that are very cool, but we're I'm very close with the Zin team. Like I know them very very well.

Really?

Executive team there. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. I also I

incredible. Nicotine is such an interesting product and it's rebranded itself to become a neutropic which it is, you know, but it's it's

I think combination of nicotine and caffeine is insanely powerful. Yes, I agree. I totally agree.

I work out with uh one of the founders of Cameo, Martin, and uh he he was telling me about this product. Uh he's he's we both are training firemen, and he was telling me about this product. Uh it's a honey, it's a gel for runners, but it has caffeine in it. But he was telling me like it is the it's not great because when you take it, it kind of upsets your stomach a bit.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you take

Wait, what? Uh, I know. What is it called? Not honey stinger.

I forgot the name, but it's a it's a gel with a

Honey Stinger does have a caffeine.

It's a gel with honey and caffeine in it. Uh, which designed towards runners. Uh, but he was telling me like a lot of marathoners take it, but it kind of like while running it upsets your stomach and then you have to use the restroom.

Yeah. I mean, it's just pure carbs that you're putting. It's sugar. It's sugar, which is carbs, you know, like which makes sense that people will be taking that. That's I I I know what the product is. Um I I forgot what it was, but I know what you're talking about.

What do you take when you were running like long marathons?

Um so Honey Stinger has hooked me up with a bunch of product so much Honey Stinger, which is basically the same thing. It's just a moldextrin gel slash sugar gel. Um if they have it, I take goo. I used to take this uh this thing called spring energy, but they came out with this very controversial someone did like a like a spectral analysis of their ingredients and they found out that what they were claiming to be the carb amount was actually not accurate. Uh so it tastes great, but I don't take it anymore. And honestly, I just eat a lot. I just eat.

I mean, that's the hard part.

Is consuming so much. It just it's get it gets exhausting uh to to be eating that much. Well, and um for people watching, what's the next big thing for Neurogum? Is there a new product coming out or um what's the next thing you guys are focused on?

I think ultimately continuing to build ourselves as a cohesive lifestyle brand that touches upon all of our products is really important. Like you know I think about Red Bull. Red Bull doesn't sell they don't sell energy they make energy you know with anything that they do their media their presence their products like where are we in that sense you know like how do we evolve on this next stage to not just be an energy focused gum but something that is more than that as a brand. And uh last thing I want to ask you about is the international expansion of Neurogum. Uh is it is Neurogum only in US or is it in other countries and how are you expanding to international countries?

Yeah, I mean compliance is the biggest thing. So uh you know it's not as easy as being like oh we're going to go to this country or this country. um labeling laws, compliance laws, we kind of look and assess that size of market, size of price and then slowly enter into slowly expand based on those criteria. But it's California has more people in it than can all of Canada. Do you know what I mean? It's so what what is the size of prize when you start expanding internationally that you can't do just being focused on a market in America? Yeah, that makes a that makes a lot of sense. I mean, California has so many laws. Yesterday, I found something interesting. I was um using my business partner's Instagram account to test one of our apps and I saw that their Instagram has an option to it's like $4.99 a month and you can see Instagram without ads. And I was like, no, in EU uh because he's based out of Spain. So, I was using his account and when I logged in, he it said, um, use Instagram without ads, $4.99 a month in California.

I was like, we we don't even have that option.

Oh,

yeah. They have an option to see without ads. So, that that's kind of crazy. Um,

and how big is the team at Neurum right now?

Like 75 people, something like that. 70 something.

Wow, that is awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. So, there's size of the team and then there's revenue per teammate. I don't think people should too caught up in like how many people they employ, but more efficiencies and strategy that drive growth. But yeah, after a certain point it becomes inevitable to hire a lot of could we run our own uh fulfillment also. So we require a lot of people there like we have like maybe 16 to 20 people just in fulfillment.

For people watching uh Durugum is doing nine figures in revenue and they have 75 employees. So you can do the math per employee. You know the there's a couple companies like Craigslist or there's a few more companies right now. um cursor uh Serge AI they they have insane high like revenue per person is like 9 million or like 10 million per person is is ridiculous

you know Slick Deals the company Slick

no

super small company I not super small

uh it's 200 people and I think they do over like almost a billion dollars a year

really that's crazy the the industry is changing a lot especially with AI the industry is changing.

Yeah, it really is. Uh thank you for coming on the show Kent. I really appreciate your time and you you've been really generous with your time and answered a lot of things and if you want to the going away message for D2C founders like what would you tell them like to give a piece of advice so they don't overthink or they don't take five years to launch a product? Yeah, the overthinking part is a big one, but uh you know in the past I would talk about like resilience and make sure you keep going. But I think the most important thing is finding your focus. Again, there's three words that I kept saying, minimum viable product, messaging, and positioning. If you figure out those three things and funnel it up to a brand strategy, then you know not to chase shiny objects. And a lot of times when people start, everything looks so exciting to you, but you have to stick to your guns and ask yourself, does this make sense for my brand strategy that I set up as it ties back to my messaging, my positioning, and the product that I'm creating? And just be focused. Uh that's take energy and focus.