From Shark Tank to Raising 20+ Million | The Story Of Eterneva

And we need partners that can help us get in front of consumers. Yeah, but you already have so much at your disposal. I just don't see it. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. It was funny when we first started. Everybody's like, "You can't build a brand in death care. Like, it's like way too touchy of a topic. You can't directly market to people. You're going to need to go straight to the funeral home, get white labelled." And we're like, "That's just missing the whole point." After losing her deep friend and mentor, she struggled to find a truly meaningful way to keep her memory alive. Then in a seemingly random conversation with a diamond scientist, she had what she calls a soul speaking moment. The realization that loss could be transformed into something beautiful and enduring. I think families deserve great experiences. They deserve beautiful celebratory options. That moment led to the creation of the company at Turnover. Her groundbreaking approach has not only touched millions of lives but has also attracted investment from Mark Cuban or Fun Shark Tank. But beyond the funding and the headlines, what's truly remarkable in my opinion is how she's built a process that helps people grieve better, bringing comfort, meaning, and celebration to the end of life space. Today, we have a founder who's revolutionizing the way we honor and remember our loved ones by turning their remains into diamonds. Please join me in welcoming Adele Archer to the show. I saw that you've been working on this idea for 8 years, and I have to say congratulations. A lot of entrepreneurs just dream of their businesses lasting such a long time and it's a it's a rare thing uh because people like either they sell their businesses or something happens or they like they jump from an idea to idea. But what stuck? I think I'm really really grateful that I found something that I we talk about founder market fit. What's the business you're supposed to go build based on who you are and how you're wired? And I think that we really found our founder market fit. And it's a space that is just so energizing to want to go innovate and reinvent the end of life space cuz there's just still so much to do. It's a blue ocean and um I think families deserve great experiences. They deserve beautiful celebratory options and frankly we're just getting started. So we're category creating. I think it's a different go to market motion than most companies tapping into an existing pool of demand. So category creation takes some time but it's really where you see that kind of reinvention of an industry uh because of the work that companies put into it. So okay I do want to put you in the position a little bit and get a little hot take from you on the on the disruption that's happening in the natural diamond industry. It's kind of the obvious thing that's lab grown diamonds are going to go more mainstream not only because they're financially better but also it's ethically sourced. Yeah totally. What's your take on the future of that? I would say while we don't view ourselves as a diamond company, like we're very much an end of life company and like our families are grievers, not somebody shopping for a diamond, our supply chains obviously has crossover. So we do watch that space and kind of look at what's going on there. And yeah, I mean I think it's just having a reckoning. It it it was something that there was so much concentration of power for a very long time in the natural industry and it's been kind of cool to see the new entrance come in and to see just an elevation of experience like the quality of diamond is better today, the sustainability, the transparency and then like even the price as well. And so yeah, I I think that that's just going to continue to happen and more of a diversification of power if you will in that space. I think what is very different between us and that industry though is we're really uh it's very bespoke our process. So we grow one diamond at a time. We're doing it from a personal carbon source of somebody that you really love. We're doing it like at our facility in Texas or our facility in Germany. So for our families, they're like, "What is a really beautiful and meaningful way I can honor my person? Do I want to pay thousands of dollars for a casket that goes into the ground that I see one time or do I want to do something very special and kind of bespoke and participatory like this? And so, um, we've invested a lot in having supply chains that are closer to home and places that people can really actually come and visit the lab and like see it firsthand. And there's a lot more, I think, consideration that goes into our supply chain side, um, versus more like mass production on the diamond like kind of regular diamond production side. So, so I grew up in India. We um after death we usually have a lot of cremation. Yeah. So, we burn the bodies. What do you the statistics on like the in US what percentage is cremation versus like the burial? Yeah. I mean it's insane. So basically we were in 1980 the United States was 10% cremation. Today we're currently at 60% and we're pacing to be 80% by 2040. 80% cremation. Mhm. Yep. So, it's just like this massive macro trend that's happening. And I think it's really a reflection of a consumer's just like the way they're experiencing end of life these days. They're kind of like, I don't really want to do what was always like prescribed by tradition. They're like, I want something that feels like personal and special and like suited to my dad or suited to my mom and like more not just like, oh, this is what we've always done. So, I think when someone cremates, a lot of the time they're cremating because they want to divvy up ashes among different family members. Different family members can do different things. They might spread some, they might have a diamond made or have a tree made and just gives more optionality and allows you to have your loved one with you. And I think that's a big driver is like people are so much more mobile today. A lot of people are moving cross country and they don't want to leave mom behind and like so if you can have her with you all the time that's pretty powerful. Well, okay. So I think the you're not really focused on the natural diamond industry. Again, I I see this lab grown diamond industry like a very you found a good product because it's a high price ticket item. Also, I was reading somewhere that you take your customers on an 8 months journey. I want to know if you actually like give them video updates like how what does that 8-month journey look like? I'll even start with a little bit of backstory of like how we even like got there because when we first started um when Garrett and I were looking into this, my co-founder, we thought we were going to start a regular lab grin company. So we were in the process of like maybe that's going to be a business we start on a personal side of my life. I had my really dear friend and business mentors you mentioned um get sick and end up passing. So I was very much standing in the shoes of my customer today being like okay how do we honor Tracy and how do we do something special? I was actually told about this idea. So Aternova is not the first company to turn ashes to diamonds. This existed way before us. I would say we're very much the company that's built the market. Um, and so the scientist was like, "Yeah, you like you can do this." And I loved the idea. I'm like, "I'm going to do it." And I went to go start the process. And I think like the thing that was just a bit of a turnoff was like everybody was really transactional with it. They were like didn't ask who I was doing this for, didn't ask our relationship. And then importantly is I was like, "How do I know her ashes are going into the diamond? How do you kind of prove that? That it's not just a regular diamond at the end of it." Um, nobody would show where their labs were. Nobody would show their process. Like it was totally blackbox. And that was what made me go, gosh, like I want to do this, but I don't feel like I can find a company right now that I really trust wholeheartedly with my person. And so that's kind of what inspired as we started Aterniva. Like day one, it was just all about transparency. We want you to know exactly what's going on, exactly where we are. Actually started though as an exercise of transparency. As we started taking families through it, every time we sent an update, they're like crying and they're like emailing it to friends and family and posting it on their social and we're like, "Okay, I think we could add even more value. Why not make these updates storytelling driven and participatory?" And so we learn a ton about their loved one and then like for example when we reveal the carbon for the first time. So you send us ashes, we're going to go through a purification process and under camera we're going to be like, "Okay, like this is your dad's carbon. Are you ready? like check it out and we'll like be speaking to them over over the video if they want to come. We actually have our facility in Texas. People can come tour. We've even let families like do you want to be a part of starting your loved ones diamond machine? So, we just make it like we want them to be involved in it because we realize that really helps somebody through grief is when they have something positive to look forward to that takes time cuz grief is definitely not done in like a handful of months. When you get to talk about your loved one a lot, you have something positive to look forward to. And it's been kind of this drum beat. It's helping people process. It's helping people integrate. And what ends up happening is on the other side when they get their diamond home, they've imbued it with so much meaning that they're kind of coming out in a different place. And that's really like what we're trying to accomplish is like it's not about a diamond product. Like if you just sent us ashes, we mail you a diamond. There was real no emotional value that was built. Um, so that experience is so kind of integral, I think, to when you talk to any of our customers, they're like, "This changed my relationship with grief." And it's going to get even more and more with Gen Z and millennials as they're more and more conscious customers. And yeah, that's incredible. like you again as a customer the the missing ingredient was the empathy that I can see like in your videos in yourite when I was watching the video I could tell like each person in your team was I even saw a box with a uh with the screen and it explains uh the process that was incredible you still have you still have that totally yeah that's like how our our families on the consumer side of our business direct to consumer they get a welcome kit and it's after they've talked to somebody on our team so when they open the welcome kit for the first time they're like blown away because they're getting a personalized video message from the person that they spoke with that's just like, "Hey, this is Shelly and like I'm so excited to do this for your mom." And they're like, "What? This is crazy." But yeah, I think you're totally right is like what's been really cool to watch. We're really big across social. Um we've done really well. Like I think we're approaching almost half a billion views across our content on social media. I want to know some juicy secrets. Yeah. What have you figured out? How to go viral? Like Yeah. But we really we've mastered the art of virality, especially Tik Tok. I know. I saw Tik Tok. Good numbers. I know. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, we literally we had an influencer last month. Um I think her unboxing video where she was opening her welcome kit hit like 20 million views. It was insane. I saw the one with uh this lady was uh showing her a pony. Yeah. Yay. Ana. Yeah. That was incredible. I was like, "Oh, she's showing her pony." Totally. Then I actually digged some more and I found out that 40% of your revenue comes from pets. Yes. Uh-huh. Exactly. But let's not change the subject. How what's the formula for going viral on social media? It's not even a formula, but what do people relate with? Yeah. So, it was funny when we first started, everybody's like, you can't build a brand in deathare. Like, it's like way too touchy of a topic. You funeral home, get white labeled. And we're like, that's just missing the whole point. That makes it transactional again. So, like we decided, you know what? Like, I think if we do storytelling in the right way that people are going to resonate with it. And sure enough, like I think what we do really well is short format video storytelling. And we just sit on this like incredible wealth of like the best stories you could imagine cuz anybody becoming a diamond is not just like an average person or pet. Like they're badass and awesome and there's so many cool stories to even tell about how they earn the diamond. And then when their diamond comes home, getting to watch somebody like open the box for the first time and see their loved ones diamond and like there's tears, but it's like happy tears and it's just like feel good awesome content. And so yeah, I mean we just like became really good at storytelling and just showcasing it in a really authentic way. And I think exactly to your point, Gen Z and millennials have such a different mindset around end of life. I think older generations still to this day struggle a little bit talking about it, thinking about it. That's not the case for younger generations. Make a video about it. Yeah. They're like, "Oh my gosh, like this is amazing." And so so often what we're seeing is like it'll be a Gen Z that saw us on TikTok. They bring it to the dinner table and they're like, "Mom, what are we doing with dad's ashes? Like why are they still in the closet? Let's do let's do this." So they're actually teaching an older generation how to be more open and okay with this kind of natural part of our life and the life cycle. So that's so interesting. Uh the quote things you own end up owning you. But in this case, that's not the case because how many items we own nowadays where people could be like, "Tell me a story about that. What am I going to tell you a story about my iPhone that was made in China?" Like, "No, there's no story." So, I think uh we're missing like missing more and more. It's it's not it's not about the value. It's the sentimental value. It is absolutely the dollar amount. And I think like that actually ties really well into like this idea of there's a wonderful grief therapist, David Kesler. He developed the five stages of grief. So we all know about those. He actually then lost his little boy and he went through it very acutely himself and he realized there's actually this optional sixth stage of grief that's on offer for all of us after you go through the five which is making meaning in the wake of loss. And I think that's what we've really realized is like through our experience and then through being able to give people really cool like like guided experiences to personalize their diamond like so we'll talk to them about like what color are you going to do that would remind you of your person. They'll be like oh my dad had these like piercing blue eyes. were like, "Sounds like he's a blue diamond." Or, "My grandma was the yellow rose of Texas, so we're doing a yellow." And then we have jewelry designers on staff that like as they get to know more of the loved ones story, they're like, "So your mom loved the ocean. Why don't we incorporate like a wave this way?" And then she had this radiant personality, so I'm going to put some rays of sunshine here. Or one of my favorites, uh, this girl, she would always watch Star Trek for her dad. So they had to put the, uh, oh gosh, what's it called? the the badge the um it's like a it's a Star Trek reference but essentially the communicator badge. So she made this platinum communicator badge with her dad's diamond in it and that was like the necklace she did. So there's just to your point such a story that gets to go with the piece cuz it does become an heirloom. They're going to pass it down to their kids and like be able to tell them that story and yeah have to be a container immune. We had the wildfire in LA and usually the at the moments of disaster you can tell what people truly care about. Totally. Like when they're like their house is burning down but they're like go for the photos or the pendants, things that will stand out. Totally. Quick question about the 8-mon process. Why does it take so long? Yeah, I mean, basically like we're doing every stage individually for a family. So, as they're going through the process, we're not batch producing a bunch of diamonds. We're growing your loved ones singular diamond in our diamond machine at once. We're um inspecting their diamond one at a time. So, it's really about kind of like the bespoke nature of ensuring that there's a 100% chain of custody that you only work on one individual at a time. You don't want to be in an environment where you've got a bunch of diamonds like a good mixed up. Like, so it's like very like kind of excellence in that sense. And then, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of stages to it. You go from ashes to carbon, then you do carbon refinement, then you do diamond growth to a rough diamond. We hand cut all of our diamonds. Um, if you want to color, we'll do a coloration process. Then grading and certification, authenticating, not only it's a real diamond, but it's made from a personal carbon source. Design of the jewelry piece if you want something custom. So, that's kind of like the whole end to end, which is a bit different than if you were just growing like kind of mass-producing a bunch of diamonds um and selling whatever you can get at a market value. So, yeah. One thing I want to ask you about Shark Tank is the the leading up to it and the kind of exposure people get because people watching this might be interested in going to Shark Tank one day and I just want them to be prepared like what to expect and what kind of exposure they'll be getting after. Well, I think it's interesting cuz I I I actually would temper my response based on who's what your business model is. I think it was highly, highly, highly positive for us, but we're a really interesting and unique product that people remember and are like, "Oh my god, that company that was on Shark Tank." Still to this day, it's amazing. Like, I'll look at our Google reviews and I'm just like like it it hits that you're like, "This person said that they were watching Shark Tank with their significant other and they had a conversation about it at the time and then one of the people pass and they're like, I know what to do now because we watched that episode." And I've seen that time and time again and that's just so powerful. I just did some customer research actually. We we surveyed customers over the last 3 years and it was something like 15% of our customers originally heard about us on Shark Tank. Um and so that was just like amazing. But I think because we're so word of mouth driven, we have that kind of like effect. Whereas I think if you were a CPG product that potentially doesn't have as quite as much of that like, oh my god, I need to talk about this at the dinner table tonight. And also for context, the episode came out 6 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. 2019. It's crazy. It's a long time. It's been a long Yeah. I mean, it it blows my mind like actually how impactful that was for us. But yeah, I mean I think every deal like you should also just look at the deal economics and make sure you're not giving like a third of your company away. Like yes, you'll get exposure, but be mindful of the equity you give up. One more incredible thing for people watching. So I just finished this audio book by Tony Robbins. Yeah. The Unleash the Power Within. I love him. Yeah. I was telling everyone, listen to this book. Listen to this audio book. And then I think 2 days ago, I went on your Instagram. Yeah. The first video I saw was Tony Robbins like following you guys. He called you out. How did that happen? Yeah. So, we've actually become good friends with Tony. Um, yeah. So, it's very cool. I've I've done a lot of Tony. I've done all of his events like big Tony fan. So, his team actually kind of discovered us um through just a testimonial video we did at his uh business mastery. Then uh they flew out and they did like a whole kind of documentary style story on Aterniva. And so that was like earlier last year we got pulled into one of his biggest kind of free events. I think there was like a 100,000 people tuned in and he closed the entire event with a turn of a story and he was crying and we were crying and like it was like a fiveminute thing and then he actually reached out and he was like hey like I have a family that I actually really love to gift some diamonds to. Um the wife had lost her husband and they were doing some some business projects together. So, um, he gifted $50,000 of diamonds to this family, which was just like speaks so much to his character and how incredible he has done a lot in terms of donation, like feeding the family, feeding a lot of families every year. It's insane. And so, they're actively a customer right now and getting to experience the process firsthand. And then something I'm very excited about actually we're announcing this week is um and ties back to what you were talking about earlier is we're actually going to be co-launching a campaign together um to support families who lost their homes in LA cuz we can actually make diamonds from the wood in a home. And so um families in Los Angeles can nominate families to uh potentially have a diamond made and then we're going to pick three families and he's actually going to present it to them at the next up unleash the power within that's in March. So yeah, I'm really excited for that. I I just Yeah, I mean I I think that like so much of our heart as a company is is philanthropy and how can we give back at a time of like somebody's kind of darkest hour that you can have some brightness and some some meaning and some hope that's created and so I just think there's like such alignment between us in that way like that's Tony through and through. So what's the next vision for Eternava? How are you going to scale this? Yeah. So, I think one of the most powerful lessons a founder can learn as you grow is like focus. Um, I think to your point, like it's cool that our company could be so many different potential things, but complexity is the enemy of greatness. And um so I think that that's something we've been really intentional about in this last year is realizing like if we just really focus on having like a beautiful like driving adoption of the turn of a memorial diamond experience for us like we literally only need to serve about like.7% of families to get to 100 million in topline revenue. and as you go to market through the funeral home channel especially like it's a very kind of predictable scalable channel that like I just I look forward to them having it newer and kind of like more celebratory options that they're offering families cuz I think a lot of families go to a funeral home and they're like I'm not seeing what I really want for my loved one here. So I think that's really where we get to go out a ton of value is is is being widely distributed across funeral homes here in the United States really driving to a large kind of enterprise size. And then I think you kind of have the option of do you start kind of launching some other product lines with your distribution channels. Um there's definitely a huge opportunity internationally. So that's very exciting as well. And so yeah, I think in the next couple of years you'll see like where we start to expand from there. But I do think like the power is in don't do it too soon. like really focus and really show the excellence and the execution in one channel before you kind of try and balloon too quick. I want to ask you about the funeral industry because it's such a black box for me. I wouldn't even know anything like if something happened to god forbid but I wouldn't even know who to call where to go like that industry is such a necessary kind of thing if it happens. Yeah. How does that work for especially younger audiences and how will your partnership with the funeral homes like how does that work? Yeah, totally. So, I like man, I so agree with you. Like my encouragement to anybody that's listening is like figure a number of things out like first do the basic kind of like audit with your family. Okay, so let's say with your parents, if you're if you're me, I just realized I was like, man, if one of my parents passed away tomorrow, I would have no idea where any of their accounts are, their login, their like, who do I contact to turn off their recurring bill pay, my dad's investment in oil and gas in Alaska, how the heck would I get in touch with them to like manage that? So, like that's a whole kind of track of work that you don't want to be caught off guard. it can be very painful, very messy, and super laborious versus if you just sat down for a weekend and like inventoried everything and talked about it. So, like I think that's kind of step one. And then step two is really do know like your ecosystem. Um I think a lot of people there's some wonderful funeral homes out there. Like I have been so blown away as I've gotten into this industry. Like most funeral directors are just like these lovely lovely serviceoriented people that just want to like they really care and they want to give back. But at the same time, like this is also an industry that like trust is the currency. Like you want to make sure you're only ever working with high integrity companies. So I would say like do the research ahead of time in your local area. Know what funeral homes exist and where you would want to work and go. Read the reviews ahead of time because when you're actually like in grief, it's called grief brain and you get this like incredible brain fog. You like are barely processing what's going on. And so you're not going to want to read a bunch of reviews and figure that all out like in that moment. It's better to have that stuff kind of coordinated. Those would be kind of two pieces of advice I have. And then also talk to your loved one. Like there's so many people it breaks my heart that I like talk to and they're like, I really want to do this for my dad, but we never talked about it and I feel conflicted. Would he like it? Would he not? Like he always joked about putting him in a box in a ditch somewhere. Like a lot of especially men I think can be kind of flippant and like think it's funny but then they don't realize the anxiety that creates on the other side for the family member left guessing. So I think that was what was so cool about Shark Tank is like it organically facilitated that conversation with people and they had such a better experience being like I want to do this. My mom blessed it. My mom loved the idea and like I just feel good about doing this going forward. So I'm like I just wish more people would have that conversation and also know the person left behind is a stakeholder too. It's not just about what you want, it's what do they need to grieve you when you're gone. So yeah, that would be kind of some of what I would suggest. You make everything sound so easy. You're incredible. Thanks. So one one last question I had about return like I read that your last round was like overs subscribed and you've raised uh money not even from like incredible investors also investors who were like exfounders of great companies. I just want you to share some tips about fundraising outside Shark Tank. How have you been so good at it? I mean, I get get that you've built an incredible business, but you've done something right in communicating that. 100%. I do think like building building your network is important, but like being strategic with your networking. I think exactly to your point, that was something that early on um I just I really did try and like know the community of founders within Austin. And a lot of the time it was like having one founder introduce me to another one and just like picking their brain on something, getting their thoughts before then saying, "Hey, by the way, I'm not raising around and would you be interested in participating?" Um, so I think like starting with I do I I really think that was something we did well was like get a ton of founders on the cap table early on in your angel rounds because then they have insane networks when you get to your seed or your series A that they are credible. If Andy Dunn from Bonobos makes an intro, people listen. They're like, "Oh, Andy likes his founder." Cool. Or Kendra Scott. Or Kendra Scott. Yeah, totally. And so I think that's another insight is like honestly don't ever do a cold outreach. Don't like with all respect and love to associates, investors. Like I do try and get as high up the food chain as I can from a credible investor, credible founder introing me in cuz I think especially we're a company that like frankly is nobody's thesis. were always going to be kind of an outofthesis bet that they're making. So, I'm like, I need to get all the way up to where somebody who has the authority to make that call is hearing the pitch firsthand is like, wow, this is more than I thought. Actually, I kind of see the vision here. Um, and they can rally the internal alignment to get a bigger check-in. So, that's some great advice. I think I'm going to follow that. You should. Yeah. Heck yeah. I want to segue that into outside the company in your personal life. What has been something you've been obsessed about? I know we touched a little bit on the health side. Yeah. And uh Adele told me about Cassie and Casey and Cali means so I went down their rabbit hole. I listen fascinating right with Logan and then I audio book. What have you been curious about outside and like some things you've been observing in like your life? Well, it's interesting cuz I actually feel like I'm a total noob at this area. like I don't know what I'm doing or what like I think such a I think we're in a moment in time right now where there has been a concentration of information and I would count myself into that group of younger people that's kind of skeptical of traditional media and the information that's been shared and I think just looking at things like uh after I listened to that podcast uh with the memes it was just like man the rate at which cancer is increasing and you know microplastics is like such an issue and nobody's talking about it and but there's starting to be this like cool ground swell of people talking about it mostly in a podcast ecosystem that it's just getting me curious like I'm like and I think too a big catalyst for this um speaking of people that watch Shark Tank um I had a very little bit of a wakeup call two weeks ago where a friend from high school reached out and he's like hey this guy we went to high school with is actually in hospice and soon to pass right now and he's 33 years old my husband used to play basketball with him um in high school and uh he had been watching our Shark Tank episodes So, he actually told his wife about this and so we're going to be honoring him. But I was like, how did a 33year-old get stage 4 bile duct cancer and it just is like I'm hearing it more and more and more and so I just I feel protective of like my husband and my little brother and like myself. I'm like I don't want that for my family. So, what do I need to know and what do I need to think about? And I have a wonderful um forum. It's like other entrepreneurs I meet with on a monthly basis and we've been together seven years and all of them are doing like the full body health scans, the Gemini and we're I'm like, "Okay, I need to get on this train. What am I doing?" But I do think like I loved what you told me. you are starting to kind of concept cuz I think that there's a need and an opportunity to democratize that information and simplify it so that if you're not somebody who's super nerdy into all that stuff, you're aware of like I don't know the difference between buying organic and inorganic products and like how those toxins are building up in your endocrine system over time or whatever it may be. The biggest thing I realized was how many chemicals that are banned in the European Union are allowed in the in America. Yeah, totally. So just even just eliminating those chemicals from your diet, from your cleaning products, from your household products, that can make a big difference. And I think that's what I want. It's so crazy like we're seeing this shift from traditional media from TV to now like Tik Tok, Twitter, podcasting. Yep. Totally. And that's why I do this totally new conversations out. Yeah. People are like I think it's just a more authentic like what do people really want to hear and and Yeah. hear about it? like it can be so obvious when there's an agenda and I think especially being a founder now when you have done the TV side of things and and the PR side of things you realize like how much of that really is engineered. So so the name of the podcast is emerging founders and I think one of the biggest challenges I've seen people face is finding a co-founder. Yeah. and finding the right co-founder. Totally having that dynamic like where you compliment each other, you work passively, but h how did you find your co-founder and like how did you guys like what did what was the thing that you were like, "Oh, we work well together." Yeah. Gosh. Well, Garrett and I were kind of lucky cuz we met in tech. We both worked in a B2B tech company prior uh to starting a tourniv. And I think we just like spotted each other and we're like, you're different. you've got this like hustle that we would be pouring into these companies as if they were our own whereas everybody else is like 9 to5 and so I think I recognized that in him both of us we ended up living together for a year and we're like incubating all these ideas so there was very much kind of that natural like fit totally and but I would say like that's just like the beginning there is I think co-foundership probably even more than marriage like there's going to be so much stress on that relationship cuz you're just in a constant state of like your company like you you need to keep this baby alive and like it like getting it to survive and and there's so much pressure and intensity and so like it's just going to stress test that relationship a lot and so I think my biggest piece of advice beyond finding a good co-founder is doing the work on the relationship first and foremost is realizing like so few of us grew up with good emotional intelligence tools and so learning how to have difficult conversations learning how to voice when something is not working or rubbed you the wrong way that you have a good method to like come together, share that feedback and say my request of you is this or your request of me is this and like have that trust in your container that how to communicate well and work as a team. And I think that's going to be some learned experience. You're going to do it wrong until you do it like figure it out. But yeah, I I would say like sooner than later like doing the personal development work and being aware that there's probably a lot you get to develop to be like really effective together. I have a business partner and we she it's a we me and her we go along so well because usually like some people like give excuses or they ask for permission and we both just work and we tell each other stuff. It's so good because we get so much more done in short period of time. Totally. And then on the other hand I have had co-founders where I'm like like we're not going anywhere. I'm only one working on this. This is not going anywhere. There's the pedal down. There's a um we use a behavioral assessment as part of our hiring process called culture index. Love love love this tool. It's probably like if if I look at like all the investments we make as a company, this has probably been my most ROI positive culture index. Culture index. It'll show how someone is innately wired. And so it's like let's say for example like founders, there's kind of these visionary archetypes. And so most founders, you want to see them kind of in that range because you're like they have drive. They've got like they're just self-motivated and driven and resilient and um kind of able to juggle a number of things. So you can literally like straight up test for that. And I actually kind of wish I knew that about that in the beginning cuz you can say, "Okay, is this person going to be complimentary to me?" and or like if we're truly equal co-founders like 50/50 and I'm wired in a way that's like very kind of entrepreneurial and enterprise and then this person wants certainty and they want a methodical slower pace of work and they prefer a team environment then you're going to be kind of like dragging them along as your co-founder that it's like maybe they would be better if you like you were the sole founder of that company who brought this person on with a nice equity stake as your first employee potentially. So like I think in the beginning just kind of like seeing how puzzle pieces fit together before you're like seriously giving 50% of your company away is somebody can always earn their right into becoming your co-founder if you had the original idea like you could totally promote them into that but like kind of allow them to earn the the path into it too. I'm like really excited for Turnover to take this like really global because I can see this going in like China like I don't know those those people are crazy about jewelry. They are they're big spenders. Yep. Totally. Cuz that's like the luxury market. You know, you're going after it. Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, I think that there's like there's incredible opportunity in Japan, in Taiwan, in India. Like literally, it's almost 100% cremation rates in all those countries. Um so yeah, I I I get excited about that as well. I think um they're also really big markets, so again, it is sequencing. Um but yeah, we have some international investors already. So they're like, "All right, let us know. We're ready." Even mastering US can be so huge. So huge. Like you said 7%, right? 7% is $100 million in revenue. And that's like that's just of US passings. That's not to mention that there's 200 million earners that are sitting in family homes today and all of that is addressable. So yeah, it's it's a really really big opportunity. Incredible. What is the book you've given most as a gift and why? And what are one to three books that have changed your thinking and greatly influenced your life? I actually give the book uh Radical Acceptance a lot. Tara Brock, that book was really transformative to me in my 20s. It's I I would say it's very good for anybody that's just struggling with like anxiety or perfectionism. Yeah, it's just a powerful powerful book. I would say Never Split the Difference. That was a phenomenal one. The Chris Voss. Chris Voss. Yep. 100%. like that influenced me a lot. And then I would say Darren Greatly by Bnee Brown. What purchase of $100 or less has most positively impacted your life in the last 6 months? Could be anything. Duolingo subscription. Um, I love languages and just like reconnecting with that. That's like my morning ritual now is just like doing like 15 minutes of my Duo and I love it. Yeah, it's so good. How is a failure, a parent failure set you up for later success? It felt like a failure in the moment, but looking back, you were like, I'm glad I went through that. Oh, man. I feel like we have so many of those where where it was just like more obstacles than failures, per se, but there have been times at a tournament that I'm just like, I can't go any further. I want to give up. And and I think every single time I look back at those, whether it's like it's barely making like the round come together or we had our supply chain completely disappear in the very beginning and we're just like, "Holy cow, we're going to where are we going to grow our diamonds?" It's like ah and every time we always figured out a way and pulled through. And I think what's really powerful about that is effectively you're building an evidence locker of what you're capable of. When you focus on the vision and you focus on like there's no way out but through then you can stack all this evidence of being like all right yes we have another like obstacle and look how many times I've already pulled it off. So let's go. And what is one or one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've ever made? It could be an investment of money, time, energy, personal development, hands down. Yeah, absolutely. I think I would I would probably tie Tony Robbins. Yeah, dude. Seriously, Tony Robbins date with Destiny. That's like my favorite. Uh it's why I'm with my husband today. Like had a pretty powerful experience in one of the days that I just like was like, "All right, burn the boats. I'm in. I'm fully committed." And I'm so grateful for that. Um, but yeah, it's always the the money you spend on yourself is going to come back like 100x.